thefarshore | Heaven's BBS

I've seen only theories floating around but nothing solid. Perhaps the Heavenly library has some information, though I won't bet on it.

Where I come from some magi are able to create homunculi, which have a little self-awareness akin to those soulless shinki that I saw. From what I've heard it's the process of their creation that forces various limitations upon them, be it a shorter lifespan, physical oddities or other shortcomings.

So you think they might be artificial creations made to imitate shinki? That's an interesting theory. But if that's the case, someone must be producing these shinki, and there must be a reason why they're doing so.

There is such possibility. However, that poses another question - is the resemblance only superficial, or does the soulless possess some tics or characteristics of the original? Affirmative could point to a different possibility. No one knows how are we brought here; what if some of the souls don't make it fully here, resulting in soulless.

Edited 2018-02-27 15:05 (UTC)

I don't know if you've met a soulless shinki before, but they hardly possess any characteristics at all. They're more like obedient machines than anything resembling a human. Even a machine expresses itself more than they do.

I think the latter is what everyone is most concerned about. If it's the entry process that's damaging souls, the issues could worsen the longer we leave the problem unchecked. If they're simply poor imitations of shinki, there are a lot more important things we should be worrying about.

I have only seen them, but you may have more luck in asking others that are acquainted with some, since I've seen several mentions of them being more than just emotionless copy. For example this post and several responses.

There's also the possibility of either the botched summoning of the said soul, or botched creation of their vessel form. It could result in a kind of "echo" of the soul, where their look is the only resemblance of the original.

Edited (I can html) 2018-02-28 15:14 (UTC)

Learning to imitate something is different from being the real deal. Regardless, the example I have access to is about as emotional as a wooden board. I suppose I'll keep an eye out for any changes in behaviour.

There are too many possible explanations, the problem is we have no way of confirming any of them right now. We lack all the key information.

Indeed. Without any solid knowledge on the process that brings us here we can only speculate about the possible explanations. Finding what rules apply here should be a priority.

Maybe when they were getting their memories erased somebody pushed the wrong button and erased everything.

That's certainly a possibility... we don't really know anything about how gods or shinki are brought to this world, aside from how us outsiders are an irregularity. If an error can cause souls from other worlds to be pulled in, I wouldn't be surprised if it was damaging some of us on entry as well.

The Heavens don't seem to care too much about solving this particular issue, either. [have they ever mentioned looking for a way to send everyone home or putting a stop to whatever's dragging them into this world?]

Why should they? They needed monster hunters, and now they have a whole bunch.

Unfortunately, I don't think you're wrong about that.

We may be on the same side, but I wouldn't depend on the Heavens for anything beyond preservation. We need to look into and solve these problems ourselves.

Who says we're on the same side? I don't remember volunteering to come here, do you? As far as I'm concerned the only side I'm on is my own.

Don't look too much into it. They're willing to provide basic training and resources to survive in this world, and we share some common enemies simply because of how we arrived here. They're not outwardly hostile to us, either, even if they've completely failed to aid us even when they've requested help from us for their own issues.

I'd consider them allies for those reasons. They're just not very good ones. Until they start trying to prevent us from leaving, I see no reason to start calling them enemies.

They took my memories and they let my god die. You might not think that makes them enemies, but it's enough for me.

To the former, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt since we have no evidence to prove they do so willingly. Losing memories is the nature of shinki in this world, and even then our own shinki have been known to remember things. Also, saying they can control it is giving them too much credit. [mainly that last point]

As for letting your god die, unless they had some direct hand in it somehow it sounds more like you're looking for someone to blame. If I'm wrong, I'd love to hear about how a bunch of idiots too incompetent to get proper security were able to have someone murdered without anyone but you calling them out on it.

You shouldn't be so eager to make enemies. They can still be useful, after all.

Look asshole, I said they let him die, not that they killed him, because that's exactly what happened. They could have stopped the killer, or at least warned everyone about him, but they didn't do a goddamn thing and Ekko paid the price.

Stop the killer? You're kidding, right? What makes you think those idiots could've made a difference even if they tried?

I'm not telling you they're flawless trustworthy individuals that you should follow blindly or whatever, I'm telling you they're useful. Perhaps less so than would be preferred, but useful nonetheless. If you can benefit from it then why not make use of them? You gain no benefits from outwardly scorning them like that.

You've spent half this conversation telling me that the folks in charge here are idiots who couldn't find their asses with both hands, and the other half talking up how useful they are. Let me know when you make up your mind which it is.

Even idiots can be made useful under the right circumstances. For example, you can look at yourself.

Try not to turn your new shinki into a murder monster, okay?

Is that all you've got? Don't worry, I'm sure one of these days you'll realize how right I am. [it's taking literally all of his willpower not to type a string of kekekekes right here]

And what if the person he's imitating had a murderous streak? I wouldn't want to stifle his recovery. Ah, but I suppose I can try not to encourage any new bad behaviours...

[ Sorry Add, but there's a gem matching game that's more interesting than you are right now. ]

[oh yeah well that just means he gets the last word!!!!!

another flawless victory for Add]

I have recognized at least one "soulless" shinki. That shinki's behavior is nothing like the individual who they resemble.

Have you considered asking anyone with the power to view souls? I've wondered where that "soulless" name came from.

How close is the resemblance? Do they have any identifying features that they obtained later in life, such as scars, tattoos, etc.? Something that couldn't just be attributed to coincidence.

I don't know anyone with an ability like that.

Nothing on face or hands, and I'm afraid I wasn't closely enough acquainted with that person to recognize any other tattoos. The resemblance is exceptionally close, though. I believe it convinced at least one god who knew the person in life much better than I did.

Sadly, that god is no longer here to ask.

It might be a useful question. Some of our abilities as gods are quite unusual.

I see. That's too bad. Information like that will be hard to come by.

I'll keep that in mind if the opportunity arises.

It seems no one else has mentioned recognizing a soulless shinki to you so far. Perhaps it's rarer than I had thought.

Well, there is no shortage of lost souls.

One would think, though, that if soulless shinki were meant to convince us that they truly were the individuals they resembled, physical details wouldn't differ. Tattoos, scars, all of that.

I know of another soulless shinki that looks like someone familiar. They do have several markings they would've received much later in life, but I wanted to find another example for comparison.

On the surface they appear to be identical, but [... explaining this without giving away his identity is hard] there was a certain object implanted inside their body at the same time as one of those markings. That object is missing, and I couldn't find any traces of it having been removed. Based on what I've seen of other gods and shinki here, it's not something that should be missing like that.

There are a few possible explanations, but I'm starting to think that analyzing the "soul" might be the only way to get any solid answers. There are too many uncertainties about our existence here, even without taking soulless shinki into account.

Indeed there are. Are any shinki in their original bodies, though?

To begin with, shinki can transform into objects, and don't seem to grow full or need to eliminate anything. I've always assumed that the body of a shinki is based off their subconscious expectations of self.

In which case, if a "soulless" shinki is truly a soul, but was damaged by being brought here, changes to their physical appearance might be expected.

On the other hand, if it's true they have no souls, perhaps they're only echoing our memories, or the memories of others, in the case of soulless shinki who don't resemble someone their god knew.

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