(Heaven's BBS)

[cieled]

From: Ciel Phantomhive (Asteria)
Date: September 13th

How can one be animate without a soul? (He asks this far from his shinki - just in case they take offense.) I do not understand how they move; how they speak; how they serve? The essence of life is one's spirit, surely?

(Though he cannot speak for demons, of course.)

I am venturing onto esoteric grounds, I know, but what better place to make such inquiries? Besides, I do not know if I am entirely comfortable sharing my home with one who is soulless.

Comments

[demonsheath]

I believe 'soulless' is a bit a misnomer, so much as they're incomplete. As such, they lack enough drive that would mark them as an individual.

Would you like a shinki that has a soul as well, young Phantomhive?

[ Hannah, your position on having a soul is debatable. Including whether or not you have your own, and not just Luca and Jim's inside you. ]

[cieled]

So you are saying they may have enough soul to function, but not enough to separate them as unique beings? That I could believe more, though I wonder why their originality was kept from them?

I think I would. But I am wary of letting a stranger into the housetemple. (Maybe he should take comfort in his soulless servant. Without an individual personality/drive, they cannot rise against him.)

[demonsheath]

It may not be intentional, though it's also possible that they're slowly recovering. A soul is particular and can be quite resilient if enough is left, after all. Even a trace of one can grow strong enough to take over.

[ She has no way of knowing if that was true or not, but it sounded close enough. Not that she had any experience or studied knowledge to back it up. ]

Then might I suggest you naming another shinki that is already settled at another temple? For example, if you were to name me, I would remain at the temple of Ma'at, but will be available for service should the need arise.

[fauxcalibur]

I share your disquiet.

Even if one's immortal soul has passed on and some echo of it is summoned for some purpose, there is more animation, more personality, more life than these soulless shinki hold.

I would rather use a mundane weapon than have to call upon the creature that has been assigned to me.

[cieled]

Yes, you stated my feelings nicely. It is easy to take a soul for granted, but when it is missing entirely, it is unnerving to say the least.

I would rely on my pistol if it was of any use against the ayakashi. But instead I am forced to make pathetic attempts at conversation with a being who shows no emotion.

[fauxcalibur]

I haven't had that much difficulty with conversation, but I tend to only need an audience.

However, I must say that it's a little different than showing no emotion, what these soulless shinki do. Before I arrived here, I had just become acquainted with a young man who was quite emotionless in his own right, but he was still alive, if that's the word for it. He may not have shown much of himself, but he had beliefs and interests that were his own. Such is really not the case with these shinki.

text; from: Inanna

[shadowrevenger]

i've always thought it was a weird way to put it myself ┐(￣ヮ￣)┌

but there are some beliefs that say the soul has more than one part, so maybe that has something to do with it? they're just missing part of it? (ー_ーゞ

text

[cieled]

A soul must be as complex as the body it calls home. (If not more so.) I could be oversimplifying it. The shinki is missing the equivalent of an arm or leg. To call them entirely soulless is probably cruel.

[shadowrevenger]

i do think it's a little unfair to them. they're still people and they must have something or they wouldn't be walking around...

i don't really have anything better to call them, though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[trademark_skull]

I'm pretty sure soul and emotion are two completely different things.

It could be that they have something like an artificial or temporary soul. Not that I don't think that's any better.

[And not something that can't be ruled out. After all humans have apparently figured out something similar more recently in his verse.]

[cieled]

Any deep emotion - any emotion that lasts - surely comes from the spirit. The only emotion I can expect from one who is soulless is shallow and untrustworthy.

(It all comes down to trust issues for him. He understands humans and he understands demons, but this? This is new.)

[trademark_skull]

[It anyone that doesn't have to know about how death works, he could see how someone might see that.]

They probably don't have any emotions if all they ever done is serve gods. Have you tried to get to know them?

text;

[diehardreaper]

They aren't so bad once you're used to them, mind. I've a soulless of me own and he's a fine lad. Bit on the shy side but I'd wager he'd make a fast friend of you if you lot ever met.

text;

[cieled]

How can I ever trust a friend without a conscience? Or morals? (Alright, so maybe he shouldn't be judging.) Those are based in the soul, are they not? The soul is affected by our decisions in life.

text;

[diehardreaper]

Bit of a blank slate, they are. Morals are based on what you yourself do so they'll probably share the same morals you do in time. It's like training a dog, for lack of a better comparison!

Being honest though. Mad, is what it is. The paperwork behind this lot must be wild.

text

[brynwieldr]

It is entirely possibly they're simply some sort of divine automaton. If the old gods can bring people from who knows where and gift them with divine powers of our own, I don't think it's that far-fetched that they can provide shinki-less or especially gifted gods with a created servant.

text

[cieled]

You provide the easy answer. It would be simple to accept that the gods have some greater plan for us, the new gods, yet I cannot trust them - nor can I trust a servant I do not understand.

Do they have a will of their own, do you think?

text

[brynwieldr]

Oh I don't trust them either. But the soulless shinki are largely harmless, with a sort of will. It's not very strong, but it does seem they have something there.

text

[drops_acid]

I suppose you're talking about the soulless shinki. But it may be that they were simply created using some other animating force.

[Cardia herself is powered by the fancy rock in her chest, so honestly she's not a hundred percent sure she has a soul either.]

text

[cieled]

I know nothing of "other animating forces". They seem wholly unnatural to me, but that is the case with anything utterly foreign.

(He is trying to open his mind, but an open mind does not equal trust.)

Re: text

[drops_acid]

I can't really argue with that. Unnatural may be a good word. If you want to know more you might try asking one of the old gods about them.

a couple days later

[death_glare]

Considering what you have doomed your own soul to, I am surprised this is such an issue for you.

[cieled]

Humans will do anything if given enough reason. These shinki are not human.

text; from: Archer

[boneofsword]

Where I come from homunculi don't have a soul. Having one develop something akin to conscience is rare, and depends on method of their creations. Unfortunately that's the extent of my knowledge.

text;

[cieled]

I have seen the dead walk about as soulless husks bent on stealing the souls of others. However the term "homunculi" makes me think of the black arts. Do your people dabble in magic?